37 responses so far ↓

• 1 Kate Danger // Sep 25, 2008 at 11:58 am

  What an ugly symbol.

• 2 Jason Hamm // Oct 11, 2008 at 7:51 pm

  This symbol really “clicks!” It says the most with the least and because there are no words it will surpass all language differences! Great job. We custom builders have needed this sort of thing for a long, long time!

• 3 Bill Colby // Oct 11, 2008 at 8:06 pm

  Finally the custom rod building craft has a unifying symbol that will help to show the fishing public that we are a dedicated and professional group of craftsmen.

• 4 Carl Jacobs // Oct 12, 2008 at 1:02 am

  International? If it requires an accompaning explanation, as it most often does, I don’t think it then lives up to what basic common sense dictates an International symbol needs to convey?
  Take 10 non-rod builders, even fishermen, and ask them what they think it implies? You’ll hear “Fishing” in general “Fresh, Salt and Fly” Its a great symbol for Fishing in general. Didn’t anyone preview this to a test groups? Its bearly abstract enough for those in-the-know to make the connection, but how about attracting new rod builders? Thats what the designer often rails on about, his interest in demographics and attracting new rod builders that bring in new money to replace those that also leave the craft. I don’t think it was very well thought out, dispite being an avid rod builder. I think someone over reached their authority, dismissed his obligation to a proper demographic study, when attempoting to design a symbol to represent us all. Sometimes it NOT enough to have a rod building empire and then force things on its primary constituents just because you have enough spare funds and available advertizing; slapping something together with little forethought that is equally representitive to his ill-concieved lack-luster website banner.

• 5 Tom Kirkman // Oct 12, 2008 at 10:59 am

  “Carl,”

  When the diver down symbol first appeared, no one outside of a very few divers had any idea what it represented - after all, a single white diagonal line on a red background does not automatically relate to scuba diving. In fact, it would seem to have nothing at all to do with diving at all. But it caught on, just as this symbol is doing right now.

  Submitting it to “test groups” was not possible because no such groups exist and you’ll never reach a consensus by committee.

  The new International Symbol for Custom Rod Building has already gained worldwide acceptance and the fact that it has now been distributed to over 35,000 rod builders is proof that it fulfills the needs of most builders along the intended lines. Since its inception, not a single day has gone by without requests for the free decal coming in to the new symbol website:

  http://www.intcustomrodsymbol.org

• 6 Robert Hale // Oct 12, 2008 at 11:16 am

  Dear website administrator-

  I believe the comments from Carl Jacobs are actually from a guy named Chris Karp who works for a competing rod building organization and is trying to get in an offensive jab.

  I am sure your magazine and website are above this sort of thing and you will promptly remove his comments which have appeared in numerous other locations on the web. They always contain the same message but with a different author’s name.

  Sincerely,

  Rob J. Hale

• 7 Joseph Karolly // Oct 12, 2008 at 11:25 am

  I got the free decal two weeks ago and put it on my truck. Already had another rod builder see it and flag me down. Plus two fishermen asked me what it was and I got to educate them on custom built rods. I think it is a very good idea.

• 8 admin // Oct 12, 2008 at 11:41 am

  Carl,

  Rob Hale is right, please try and leave out your personal jabs at other people of this forum.

  While I’m all for open dialog and throwing around ideas here on Angling Trade, I am not okay with personal jabs and I refuse to referee any grudge you might have with someone. I just don’t have time for it.

  On a side note, would any of you rod building folks out there care for your own rod building forum on this website? Please let me know what you think and I’ll set one up for you folks.

  Tim Romano
  Managing Editor Angling Trade

• 9 Scott Blair // Oct 12, 2008 at 12:44 pm

  We needed something like this. I like it.

• 10 Gary Underlin // Oct 12, 2008 at 1:39 pm

  Great idea! I wonder if fly fishing or fly tying would benefit from a similar type symbol for group or hobby recognition. Something to think about.

• 11 Mike Barkley // Oct 12, 2008 at 5:12 pm

  No text necessary!! The stark simplicity of it is what makes it perfect as it will be instantly recognizable by rodbuilders throughout the world! Contrary to “Mr Karp’s” opinion (he has been kicked off of numerous building forums) This symbol has NO connection to any rodbuilding organization and is not the symbol of any business. It is merely a logo that custom rodbuilder can, if they choose to, display. It does not denote ANY affiliation with ANY organization or business Actually, Mr Kirkman neither runs nor is affiliated with any rodbuilding club/association/organization.

• 12 Kirk Tomman // Oct 12, 2008 at 6:34 pm

  I think Carl is right, maybe a tip, a guide, and a reel seat would have been better. I would also like to know the competing rod building orginization Mr. Hale speaks of.

• 13 Sean Hoskins // Oct 12, 2008 at 10:08 pm

  I can see great potential for this symbol although it may take a while to gain universal acceptance.

• 14 Mike Barkley // Oct 12, 2008 at 10:32 pm

  Kirk Tomman/Tom Kirkman!! Hmmmm!

• 15 Bill Eshelman // Oct 13, 2008 at 6:45 am

  Hi Mike,

  I caught that connection too. Even though my allergies have been acting up I am getting a scent of jealousy and rage and a few other self help needs from Mr . Jacobs or who ever he may be.

  Bill

• 16 Bill Colby // Oct 13, 2008 at 8:51 am

  There will always be a few detractors when something like this is devised. But overall it has gained an incredible amount of steam in the few months since it’s been available. The sheer numbers of rod builders that have already adopted it pretty much tells the tale.

  Chris Karp aka “Carl Jacobs” and “Kirk Tomman,” should either design one and distribute it for free to tens of thousands of custom rod builders like Tom Kirkman did or just pipe down. It is a shame when one guy who is not willing to do anything for anyone can cause so much commotion over something as unique and simple as a rod building symbol.

• 17 Carl Jacobs // Oct 13, 2008 at 4:43 pm

  Hopefull paranoid Dreamers speculate that I am associated with some other competing website..Dream on, well ya maybe right, if that website is http://www.common-sense.com conversly, my non-sales oriented opinions might not be welcome on other less objective sites.
  The Divers symbol example is almost a good retort, save that it does not lead you astray thinking its something else, in this instance; fishing in General, The Diver symbol is designed formost to be a warning and as such much more visable at a distance for safty reasons, it was desigend with this FORETHOUGHT in mind. Thus in nearly every instance I’ve encountered, this Rod building/Fishing symbol requires an expanation. (preceding posts unwittingly support that aspect) I believe comparing these two diverse symbols is not exactly an apples to apples comparison moreover, easily broken down if common sense is applied.
  As for the symbol not being attached to a specific orginazitation. The symbol was designed by the owner of a specific rod building empire, paid for and widly distributed by funds procured from it, and the majority of the favorable, or adamently defending responces, even in this forum, are by regular yes-men who frequent, and in some aspects of this empire are paid by it, now to say the symbol has no affilliation seems nieve at best.
  In a similarly aspoused vein; some Rod Building empires have affiliated sites with deep enough pockets, aided by tax write offs, to send out complimentary mags to libraries, while at the same time disclaiming any benefit to the owner; rather it just promotes rod building…What of these newly inspired Newbies? might they buy more of the same mag, or other same-empire items. Ya thats way to deep a beneficial connection for me to fathom, let alone for others to admit to.
  Regarding symbol testing, aptly proving my comnnon sense perspective, or absence there of in the designer, My answer is that a random test focus group could consist of 10 ppl you met off the street if you actually wish to seek out a objective assesment, but somehow that was too difficult to decern, all-be-it impliment.. So to say there is no test focus group is yet another highway-or-my-way answer, in this case to the whole focus group testing concept. Want a more sports oriented test focus group, how about spending/investing an hour in a Sporting goods parking lot or boat launch ramp? Geee… If only one had a similarly veined Website, Mag, or Expo to bounce concepts off in order to gain pertinant input, that is if your open minded enough to assimluate constructive input.
  I only am responding in defense to the many opposing view points, otherwise I would not reply, as this forum’s Admin suggested, which was promptly ignored by the many, I hope this forum allows the few, or the one, a responce to the mob mentality easily, and demonstrativly curried agaisnt any constructive overview of this Rod Building Empire.

• 18 Carl Jacobs // Oct 13, 2008 at 5:42 pm

  Yes Tim R;
  A Rod building forum would be nice, if you can remain objectivly thick-skinned. Once money enters into it, You seem to have to express only positive view points or get ganged up on. You might say Naaaa that could never happen. I once noted how a product that seals cork does make a grip slightly slipperier, well this website sold that product so then about 5 responces from some ppl who profit from the site, post that I am not able to follow the simple directions on the packaging, implying there was something wrong with me, while in the rest of the whole world when you apply basically a water based sealer (without aggeragte) over a pourous substrate in order to keep dirt out, it does make the surface slipperier. None of these experts expressed the fact that it wears off yearly in high use areas and requires a complete sanding and anonther application. This is simple prevarication by ommission.
  What goes right with a product, pretty much, takes care of itself, what can go wrong is what I wish to avoid. If that impeds sales, common sense can be easily dismissed.
  It would certainly be refershing to have a rod building forum not directly funded by entities that profit soley from rod building. From what I’ve seen when that occurres, its sort of like the the inmates running the asylum, counterdiction rules and Empours often sports new clothes. If your magazine can’t take input like…. it is too short, or has too many ads, or your pushing hard for a particular narrowed perspective, freedom of speech and objectivity goes out the window. Otherwise it would be a welcome site addition to behold. I for one hope you do it, and will be the 1st here to respond positivly about it, while many others continue on with their preordained agendas.

• 19 admin // Oct 13, 2008 at 5:53 pm

  We’re a pretty thick skinned bunch over here at Angling Trade and would gladly welcome anyone who wants an unbiased place where everyone is free to talk. That’s what our magazine is about. Getting people communicating, talking and helping one another. I’ll get a forum up and going in the next week or two and will let you know when it’s up. It will be under our forums page. If it works great, if not - no big deal…

  Tim Romano

• 20 Richard Khune // Oct 13, 2008 at 7:14 pm

  Mr. Carl Jacobs-Chris Karp,

  You contribute nothing to the rod building craft but seem to constantly berate anyone that does. Get help and get a life.

  Mr. Kirkman has a record that is unsurpassed and his magazine and International Rod Building Expo prove it. He will do more for the rod building craft today than you have done for it in a lifetime. Can you name anything you have done for the overall good of the rod building craft? Of course you cannot. You have done nothing but complain and criticize, which is easy to do.

  Seek professional help. It’s worth the money.

• 21 P. Bondurant // Oct 14, 2008 at 9:01 am

  It would be good to have a rod building forum here so Mr. Jacobs-Karp can have a place to speak his mind. He has been kicked off about every other rod building forum on the \’net so he needs somewhere to spend his day.

  In the meantime Mr. Jacobs-Karp can unveil his own unique rod building symbol which will surely appeal to everyone. At that point he will certainly begin sending one free of charge to every rod builder in the world. I will be waiting to receive mine in the near future Mr. Jacobs-Karp.

• 22 Mike Barkley // Oct 14, 2008 at 10:04 am

  C’mon Chris,

  Grow up our beef is with the fact that you don’t want to ever pay for anything and you resent anyone that is more successful tha you and has actually accomplished something!!

  Incidently, the origibal diver’s flag (created in the 50’s was NOT free and was SOLD by the creator and took time to become recognized and accepted. http://www.dive-flag.com/
  You seem to think that profit is a dirty word unless it’s for you!!

• 23 Carl Jacobs // Oct 14, 2008 at 3:11 pm

  For the record, Only two, high-handed, highway- or-my-way websites have seen fit to denigh my civially expressed, freedom of speech, because they couldn’t handle the truth, one occured, after I stated that the owners ego won’t allow him to actually shut down the site, or his expo as he so often makes painfully known…. that hes “Thinking of doing” After a while, crying wolf gets patheticly old, especially when he’s always throwing the exact same pity-party just to garner more income. Now I would never spend all day responding to nearly every thread on my, often requested (needed to justify an opposing reponce)…. mythical type website, or accompaning mag, expo, or symbol, and then constantly complain about not having enough time.
  I do so like the lauaghable, so often repeated argument, that one must own a site, mag and expo to even point out logical flaws, or incurr the rath of the many followers. This is an elitist 1st mentality. The most troubling aspect is you can’t point out common sense logic to what would otherwise might be indiviuuals, if they were not so secure in the thought of being lead.
  I once tried to point out to the paid expo speaker Mike B, that most of his posts primarily include a sales pitch, often times entirly missing the crux of inquiry, or ommitting pertanant thread specific info in lew of the pitch. Why he was offended that anyone would aspouse such a thing, When its quite clear that anyone with half a brain could readily comprehend, that his responces are unduly slanted. Mike seems once again to miss the point, wether it is about the difference in a diver warning based symbol meant to be used as a warning flag, or how a responce apperars disingenuous, if it omits pertant info just to make fearless-leader more money
  One thing you can almost be assured of is, if anyone has to respond with Grow-up, Get-a- life, resort to vulgarities, or expresses a requirement that you need to be an fellow elitist to express an opinion, or accomplish anything meaningful… this denotes followers who have been logically cornered and grasping at straws, hey, pick on my spelling next its about all the collectivly lead mind can mustar.

• 24 Mike Barkley // Oct 14, 2008 at 4:06 pm

  Let’s be honest, Chris! You have NEVER attended an Expo, subscribed to RM magazine or did anything that would cost you a dime. Every workshop that I have done dealt 100% with MAKING your own tools, etc, turning grips, etc from alternatives and Tip, tricks, NONE of which ever promoted,demo’d a single commercial productproduct and while a couple time, the speakers were given a stipend as a way of thanks, it certainly wasn’t even enough to pay for my bar bill, let alone flying halfway across the country to enjoy the camraderie of scores of other builders.

  You really need to get a life!!!

• 25 Carl Jacobs // Oct 14, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  Mike

  I don’t expect honesty from someones whose opinion is so easily influenced as subjectively as yours, while also being so slow on the uptake of simple common sense.
  Once again the elitist argument… that I must 1st pay into some segment of the empire to be somehow beneficial. Common men live within their means Mike. Suppling complete on topic answers is indeed offering “Something benificial” now you might not be able to comprehend such a concept
  You once again entirely miss at least two points of my last post (Eliteism, Get-a-life) and painfully continue to express them, keep grasping at your limited take on things.
  As a necessary point of clarification..I only mentioned your remunerated speaking engagments so readers here might better understand your viewpoint. Doing so merely impies, you are paid by some part of the far flung empire which obviously does motivate your positions. I specifically called into question your; on line, rod building website responces as being subjective and sales oriented. You misseed the boat once again. Can you stay on topic and respond to the observations posed in there correct context? or does not being able to sell, sell, sell in every reponce, now cloud your mind? Resulting in the kind of illogical disconnected reponces you have posted here. Formulate a sylogistic rebuttle that at least attempts to deal with the perspectives I expressed in a cogent fashion. Twisting them around in some sort of self serving, often ommisve and disconnected rationalization of my assurtions, does not strictly lead directly to that total honesty you seem to be claimoring for.
  Not being one to cast incipid desperate aspersions… I’m sure you have a life Mike, now shift out of neutral and engage your brain.

• 26 Mike Barkley // Oct 15, 2008 at 1:39 am

  Well said for an egotistical parasite on the backside of society with limited abilities who can only justify their existance in their own mind by trying to bring others down to their intellectual level!!

  My sympathies go out to you as you must be a very lonely person.

• 27 Bill Eshelman // Oct 15, 2008 at 5:08 am

  All i can add is “STICKS AND STONES” This is not what I expected in a forum. I am going back to the othe and will probably never return th this one. One the other forum I can learn something every day, they are so helpful. This one all you do is fight and backstab!!! I can go to work and get paid for that. You people need to get right with God and I am sure he will help you,

  I proudly have my symbol on the back of my 2006 Ford rangr 4X4. If some one wants to give me another symbol I may decde to display it too. However, i will not hold my breath waiting.

• 28 Tom Kirkman // Oct 15, 2008 at 9:25 am

  I spent a good amount of money designing, producing and giving away tens of thousands of decals featuring the symbol. I do not plan to make a single red cent from it. Nobody else was willing to do this, so I did it.

  I am not selling it (nor will I ever sell it). I have copyrighted the symbol only to protect it from any sort of use that would undermine its inherent value for those in this craft. Those who wish to utilize the symbol on items they wish to sell may obtain written permission, for free, simply by agreeing not to alter the symbol in such use.

  No one is forced to use it or display it. My suggestion to those few who, for whatever reason do not like it, is simply to ignore it. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, “It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

• 29 Carl Jacobs // Oct 15, 2008 at 2:12 pm

  Godly Bill E:
  Your only on this site, because you found it via a link on the that other site you now wish revert back to, where you also are a regular and blindly support any edict it issues, thats the only reason your here now. You could be learning something here if your mind was open to it…. not biased at all are you Christian Bill.
  The truley ironicly funny thing is, the thread on that site containing the link here, is titled: “WEB symbol sighting” which accuratly characterizes the symbols full potential namely a WEB symbol, not an internationl one because you need accompaning site input to explan it. Subliminally Bill Colby hit the nail flush on the head…and the owner of that site couldn’t find a test focus group, ya right, nor see the forest for the trees either, let alone see its a WEB symbol.
  Oh and one more hypocritical thing… Mike, did his share of backstabbing here is that also what your running away from?…. Well hes a empire paid regular on that other biasedly better site? Oh your getting away from it all right?
  As for the Jefferson quote, it does sound a bit apathetic, when I believe its also everyones duty and right, to question authority, might I suggest a more fitting concept in this instance… something from Bush 43#, where if you bring to light an opposing viewpoint, or flaw in logic, your somehow not patriotic (to the empire). To somehow think that providing and distributing a symbol meant to increase Rod Building awearness is somehow not going to pay dividends back to someone with a rod building empire seems as counterdictivly disconnected as many of his other claims.
  As for Mr Mike, let me inform you that Elitist’s are the most egotisitical of all and you seem to readily adopt that perspective, dispite it being suggested that it is not universally seen as virtuous. Oh and when my abilities were once displayed on that other site’s photo page you seemed to put in writing they were inventive and praised them? Waffling now? limited memory? or preordained agenda? I’m thinking your just now letting your emotions get the better of you. Now if my intellectual level is lower than yours, requiring the necessity to point that out is yet another example of an Elitist standpoint?
  Seems to me, even with this “lowered intellectual level” I pointed out many things your empire paid 3-day bar bill must have somehow obscured. Might I add Mikes lonely infrence to the list of straws grasped at, when logically cornered, my bad.

• 30 S.T. Smith // Oct 15, 2008 at 3:24 pm

  Carl Jacobs-Karp or whatever

  Dude……… you really have some issues. Get over them and try and get a life. We are talking about a rod building symbol not the UN Charter.

• 31 Robin C. // Oct 15, 2008 at 3:26 pm

  All I know is that Tom Kirkman has done a lot for me and others and much of the time all for free. I do not know of a single thing that this Jacobs fellow has done for anyone.

• 32 Carl Jacobs // Oct 16, 2008 at 2:55 pm

  Its so good to hear from all those beholden to Kirkman run to his rescue, in a street gang fashion, every time an solitary opposing viewpoint is put forward. The expanded result from compliance with the Bush 43# concept mentioned above, You Dare to see through the Empour’s new clothes.
  I like yet another logically cornered, apatheticly inspired, straw grasping Get-a-Life responce from ST Smyth, and its not a UN Charter, but does aptly illustrate the naturally reoccuring systemic disconnect from common sense, when one surrounds himself with yes-men.
  Robin C you might be surpised to learn that, what any person does not know could fill volumes. It seems Your selectivly brief memory span might not have retained/comprehended what I previously posted on this very thread namly, That I have responded compeltely…. (and for a time even on Kirkman’s own site where responces are incomplete because he admites, better info needs to be purchased, or where negitive product effects are ganged-up on, not unlike in this thread, Moreover, expressing these commonly occuring circumstances deter sales )…..to posted threads that directly addressed the overlooked specifics, and as such have helped inquiring Rod builders beyond the (should be obvious) limitations of some other sites. So Robin, consider this your 2nd notification that I have helped MANY fellow Rod Builders, unless you don’t consider/dismiss complete FREE responces as beneficial to Rod Builders? I have read Kirkman position regarding what he thinks about most o/l inquires, furthered by his elitist followers (like Mike B.) which basically entails that most are parasites because they don’t buy into some segment of his empire. Gee Gordon Geko, greed is always good, just look at what it does for our financial system; if it ain’t broke, stay apathetic, and don’t even attempt to bring up disparities, gain input from focus groups, let alone fix it.

• 33 Kirk Tomman // Oct 16, 2008 at 6:17 pm

  My god man let it go!

• 34 Carl Jacobs // Oct 17, 2008 at 2:09 pm

  Its apathetically easy enough to “let it go” it just takes time to address the many who scurry to your rescue no matter what the edict, or to join the street gang like odds against.
  The Admin indicated early on in this thread “I am not okay with personal jabs” qualifiying it with “at other people of this forum” my responces are basicly directed to the defending interlopers linked here from from that other site. I do admit that this is a petty attempt at an exculpating argument. Heres something that isn’t, Did Mr. Kirkman also post some similar request to halt or attempt to call off his regular rank and file personal jabbing regulars? Seems to me that Mr.Kirkman only thinks that only I should “let it go” and not any of his minion? Far be it from me to suggest anyone is showing a bias…. yet again. This reminds me of the run-of-the-mill Harry-High-School political tactic where; a Principal has the Vice Princial do all his interactive dirty-work with the student body so he can then appear respectable and above it all. Nice attempt, but the Common American (Joe/Joesphine six-pack-plumber) is becoming more and more awear of political ploys like that. I simply react with common sense, want it to stop? Lead an objective effort, or unwittingly reinforce Elitist and biased traits. Its getting easier to see through the Empoeror’s new cloths and confront the naked truth.

• 35 Jack Lapenis // Oct 18, 2008 at 8:18 pm

  Round mouth!

• 36 Rob Landman // Nov 19, 2008 at 2:31 pm

  I just found this website but what a waist if time reading these comments. I stopped after the second postage from Mr. Carl. Scrolled down, left my commend and I will now close the site and won’t come back.
  Thanks KIDS

• 37 Josh Williams // Dec 6, 2008 at 4:23 pm

  Yes, Mr. Kirkman is only out to benefit himself.
  Yes, Mr. Kirkman is a whiner.
  Yes, Carl, errr chris, errr Kirk, is correct on many of his assertions.

  BUT. In his effort to benefit himself, both in status and finance NO other person in the history of custom rod building has done so much to promote our business. SO, even though his faults are many we are all indebted to him on some level.

  Carry on , Mr. Kirkman, Carry on.

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